Great Vent Job at Chicago House Fire. Raw Video

This is some awesome ventilation footage from Chicago Fire Department. The fire happened on Wednesday October 14th, 2015. Crews cut two holes on the steep pitched roof. Watch this text book vent job and be sure to comment below.

Category:

Fire News, Ventilation

21 Comments

  • Kevin Welch 1 year ago

    How is this a great job on venting? They opened the roof and added a massive amount of fuel to the fire (oxygen), this is making the fire worse. If they had hand lines in place and put water through the roof immediately after opening it then that could be justified. In this case they opened the roof and the fire got hotter and more intense. And why are these guys not packed up, if they fell through the roof they would have been dead. It is these same tactics that are killing our brothers and sisters in the fire service. The fire service needs to embrace science and research in fighting fires, we are fueling the fire by adding oxygen. This is a poor example of firefighting, we need to learn that this form of ventilation is outdated and dangerous. Wet stuff on the red stuff puts fire out, oxygen makes it worse!!

    • Jeff 1 year ago

      I usually dont respond to stuff like this, but this time I had to. Why do we continue to bash those we call our Brothers???? While their methods may not be perfect, they are creating a more tenable environment for the interior crews. By venting the roof, all of that heat, smoke and unburned fuel is not on the inside of the structure, killing occupants and beating down our guys trying to get to the seat of the fire. Cutting vent holes does not “fuel” the fire. Science is good, but it needs to be applied correctly. Vertical ventilation is still, and has always been, a valid tactic. SLICERS RS will save Firefighter lives in the right situations. How about we all just watch these videos, learn a bit and apply it to the next run we go on. Stay safe out there!!!

      • Paul 1 year ago

        I wasn’t on scene and so I can’t really determine whether the decision to vent was justifed or not. What I will coment on is the fact that neither Firefighter had SCBA on. In fact, the one Firefighter didn’t even have his helmet on correctly, which is why it fell off. How many more cancer related deaths need to happen for our Firefighters to understand that FULL PPE is not a luxury, it’s a necessity.

      • Kevin Welch 1 year ago

        To say I am “bashing” these guys is a misrepresentation of the idea I am trying to deliver here. I attended a conference this summer with presentations by Retired Chief of Training for Chicago Fire Peter VanDorpe and FDNY Captain John Ceriello and the message was loud and clear that if we don’t change our tactics then we are going to keep going to funerals. Cutting vent holes in an area that is already starved of O2 only does one thing……. introduce more fuel (O2) to the fire. You mentioned that it keeps the heat off the guys inside, this actually increases the heat and allows the fire a pathway to spread. They have found that vertical ventilation was killing people inside the structure. Example would be someone is trapped in a non fire room, we open the structure up allowing O2 in and increasing the fire throughout the structure. Then the non fire room where the victims are is the pathway for the original fire due to us opening up the structure and allowing the fire to follow the path of least resistance. Please see attached video for more information on this. Thank you for your constructive criticism and lets all keep talking about the issues we face in the fire service. And the other big issue here is, WHY THEY DID NOT HAVE THEIR AIR ON? Water puts out fire, less venting and more water is the answer. Once the fire is out then it is time to vent the structure, not while the fire is still hot and looking for O2 to grow and spread. Thank you.

        http://www.fireengineering.com/topics/m/video/55580014/fdic-2012-standing-on-the-shoulders-of-giants.htm

        • Randy 1 year ago

          These men truck company men do this everyday with out getting themselves killed. This new or so called new information is not really new if you go back and study the fire service. We have been closing doors for quite some time now. VEIS has been around for a long time. Putting the wet stuff on the red stuff has been around since the fire service was established. Don’t go bashing other departments until you have followed in their footsteps and have been to as many fires as they have. You can learn a bit by reading and training on ventilation in the fire service. NIST does everything under controlled situations, they determine the fire load, how much air to introduce into their make believe house, wind speed, unfortunately we have no way of knowing the fire load in peoples houses and we can not control the wind speed and direction in the real world. So read up on all things before having diarrhea of the mouth.

    • Chris Taylor 1 year ago

      They are not adding fuel to the fire, they are making a huge hole for all the heat and smoke to escape the house. There were people in hoselines ready to fight the fire when the hole was cut. I think they did a great job. why are we so scared to perform the job that we were called to do. you signed up to be a fireman so be a fireman. Do your job. Its about discipline and doing your job so you accomplish your mission, which is put the fire out. Vertical vent is not an outdated tactic, trust me. I ride a Ladder truck every shift and the roof is where we work. That’s our assignment on every fire. Make the roof. No its not safe, but nothing in this job is. Kudos to those guys for doing a great vent job and helping the attack crew release all that heat and smoke.

    • Mike Collier 11 months ago

      Did anyone notice the firefighter about to bail out of the second floor window at the very end of the video???

  • Kevin Welch 1 year ago

    Randy, Wow…… diarrhea of the mouth? Instead of just putting your first name on a comment put your last name also, it shows that you believe in what you are saying. I wish you the best, getting in line and following everyone else. And as for personally attacking someone, it shows a lack of intelligence. Next time someone is trying to teach you something listen and ask questions instead of just pulling some rookie freshman comment like “diarrhea of the mouth”. There is something called thermodynamics, here is your first lesson and I hope you read more about it. It explains everything!

    Intro: I copied this very easy to read explanation for you. Good Luck studying!

    Thermodynamics is a branch of physics concerned with heat and temperature and their relation to energy and work. It defines macroscopic variables, such as internal energy, entropy, and pressure, that partly describe a body of matter or radiation. It states that the behavior of those variables is subject to general constraints, that are common to all materials, not the peculiar properties of particular materials. These general constraints are expressed in the four laws of thermodynamics. Thermodynamics describes the bulk behavior of the body, not the microscopic behaviors of the very large numbers of its microscopic constituents, such as molecules. The basic results of thermodynamics rely on the existence of idealized states of thermodynamic equilibrium. Its laws are explained by statistical mechanics, in terms of the microscopic constituents.

    Thermodynamics applies to a wide variety of topics in science and engineering, especially physical chemistry, chemical engineering and mechanical engineering.

    Changes of state of a system:
    In the approach through equilibrium states of the system, a process can be described in two main ways.
    In one way, the system is considered to be connected to the surroundings by some kind of more or less separating partition, and allowed to reach equilibrium with the surroundings with that partition in place. Then, while the separative character of the partition is kept unchanged, the conditions of the surroundings are changed, and exert their influence on the system again through the separating partition, or the partition is moved so as to change the volume of the system; and a new equilibrium is reached. For example, a system is allowed to reach equilibrium with a heat bath at one temperature; then the temperature of the heat bath is changed and the system is allowed to reach a new equilibrium; if the partition allows conduction of heat, the new equilibrium is different from the old equilibrium.

    In the other way, several systems are connected to one another by various kinds of more or less separating partitions, and to reach equilibrium with each other, with those partitions in place. In this way, one may speak of a ‘compound system’. Then one or more partitions is removed or changed in its separative properties or moved, and a new equilibrium is reached. The Joule-Thomson experiment is an example of this; a tube of gas is separated from another tube by a porous partition; the volume available in each of the tubes is determined by respective pistons; equilibrium is established with an initial set of volumes; the volumes are changed and a new equilibrium is established. Another example is in separation and mixing of gases, with use of chemically semi-permeable membrane.

    Conclusion:
    In easy to use terms…….. If you cut a hole in a fire building starved of oxygen then it will draw that oxygen in, creating more fire in that area and giving the fire other pathway’s. If you keep the area stable (lets say put some water on it) and not introduce fuel (O2) into that area then the fire will go out with these simple scientific principles. There are certain laws to the natural world we live in, these principles are governed by pressure, fuel load, density of matter and air and heat. I hope this wasn’t too confusing.

    Thank you for disagreeing with me, now lets all learn together, or we can just keep following the same path of misinformation.

  • Jerimiah 1 year ago

    To call this text book seems like a bit of a reach. I get that not everything in the books works in the field and we might have to modify tactics, but this looks more like everything not to do. To start there are no air packs. We almost lost a brother on the west coast a few months ago after falling through and surely would have had he not been packed out. The hole was cut halfway down the roof and wasn’t punched through after. Then after slipping at the peak his helmet dissappears. I applaud our CFD brothers for being aggressive and opening the roof, but I would definitely have to disagree with this being text book.

  • Ray Fineron 1 year ago

    First, so you know where I’m coming from, this is my company & shift (T41, Chicago) on the roof (I was off).
    I understand all the air pack talk, and I’m not even saying we’re 100% right.

    BUT

    Do you believe that with all the fires we’ve fought since air packs were introduced and with all the great chiefs (not all, but the CFD has had some well respected chiefs) we’ve had, that we don’t talk about packs and their application to going to a roof? Do you really think that Chicago (and MANY other departments) just don’t wear packs to the roof so we can look cool?

    Come on. Chicago drills, and tests, and discusses, and uses real life applications to go into all the firefighting tactics it uses.

    If you disagree, that’s cool. And you might even be more right, but please don’t talk like we’re just a bunch of self absorbed neanderthals ignoring common sense. There’s a lot more to this conversation than just pointing fingers.

    Remember, VanDourp (excuse my horrible spelling) was the chief in charge of training at this dept that leaves the option to wear tanks to a roof. That says something.

    • Kevin Welch 1 year ago

      Ray Fineron,

      Thank you for your constructive feedback and your service. The culture of the Chicago fire service is unique and I have the utmost respect and admiration to my brothers and sisters at T-41 and for all that serve. Thank you for explaining to me your SOP for roof operations, i was hoping that someone that works on this truck would respond. It is obvious that CFD trains at the highest level and I am sure that not all members might agree with certain tactics. I am sure your fellow firefighters do not go into any situation wanting to look “Cool”. They do their job like we all do, because we have a respect for life and the guniune idea that the greatest service is giving back. I am once again not “bashing” or “pointing fingers”, i just want to start the conversation on how we can all improve and talk without being ridiculed or attacked for bringing in different ideas. How do we change? How can we improve? How can we talk to each other and respectfully disagree and come to agreement? I apologize if my comments seemed derodatory or disrespectful, that was not my intention or purpose. My purpose is to start the dialogue, to break out of our comfort zone and begin where my grandfather and his fellow fireman started. To honor the legacy of those that have fallen so no wife, husband, son, daughter, brother, sister or cousin has to hear the bagpipes from far away as the trucks slowly role down the street. This was my intention, not to point fingers but raise hands and ask questions. Thank you Ray and everyone that wishes to have a conversation and not an argument. Maybe next time I am in Chicago I can stop by Truck 41 and listen to your crew so I can learn. Thank you, be safe and RIP Firefighters Leggio and Mesh from Kansas City Fire. Their act of bravery and heroism after rescuing people on Monday and the ultimate sacrifice they gave and all of those that have died in a LODD. All gave some and some gave all. Lets keep talking!

  • Sloville 1 year ago

    It’s all easy in hindsight, but it doesn’t seem like the aggressive ventilation had the desired effect. I think that is very important to note. Especially because it also appears that they had to essentially bail off the roof. The fire starts to self-vent out the back, on a small roof it seems as if that front cut might be unnecessary…from my chair. As for the air packs, I suppose if it is left up to the line staff to wear them or not, it is a personal decision, that they will have to live with. I think it would have been smart to wear them, I certainly would. If you weren’t going to wear them however, then I would think that your objective would be to get on and off the roof as quickly as possible. Messing around with that front cut seems unproductive, dangerous, and low on the risk/benefit scale. It is also called a chin strap for a reason, it’s one thing just to put your gear on, it’s another to use it properly. Your helmet can’t protect you if it falls through the roof. Glad everyone made it off safe.

  • Kevin K from Colo 1 year ago

    It’s always easy to monday morning quarterback anything, from your rookies first meal to your last structure fire. And not knowing the culture or policies of the CFD, I cannot and will not comment on any of that. But no matter where we work, or what rig we ride on, we must seriously start to listen to the fact that we still lose approx. 100 firefighters every year (while our actual structure fires continue to decrease), and most importantly, firefighters are being diagnosed with a large variety of cancers each and every day. You may be able to vent a roof or enter a structure for your whole career without getting yourself or your partner killed. But, it doesn’t mean that we cant hide from cancer. An airpack during active firefighting operations and more importantly overhaul will help decrease your chance of breathing all the crap that we work around………We need to be smart, at all times. And that includes Truck work on a roof and around a burning structure. Stay Safe Brothers.

  • Jeff Deetz 1 year ago

    Looks like a good vent job to me, has the desired effect of lifting and removing the bad stuff, true it will increase fire growth without the application of water, but I doubt this was the case here, we only seen less then 4 minutes of the fire. After a 26 year career and opening scores of roofs, vertical ventilation is by far the the most effective, but must be done in a coordinated manner with highly trained firefighters. I cant tell you how many times the engines guys would thank us for the vent, they knew immediately when the job was done because of the desired effects. I have watched and read all the info from UL, NIST, Governors island etc, and do not remember any information that said never vent the roof. If you study the first burns they did in the 1 and 2 story homes they built inside their warehouse, it clearly shows a temperature drop and a visibility increase with vertical vents, these burns did not couple the application of water with the vent as they were mainly looking at fire growth and flashover details with ventilation.
    We do not lose 100 firefighters a year in structure fires, maybe 4-8 on average which is still a huge loss to those families and departments, but to keep throwing around the 100 figure is irresponsible. Also, structure fires have been fairly flat for the last 20 years, around 500,000, and lately we have seen a small uptick in them. When I look at the number of structure fires we respond to and work in, I amazed at the great work we do without losing a large amount of firefighters. If the police were to have 500,000 gun battles a year, what would their LODD’s look like. The American fire service is doing a great job saving lives and property when you put it in context.

  • Brian Gary 1 year ago

    I am amazaded at the number of people who make comments about other departments and yet have less than 100 working fires under their belt. Anyone who can’t see that the vent on the back side in this video is man made probably ought to just worry about actually going to some fires and actually having experience before speaking publicly. Natural vent doesn’t happen with 90 degree corners. As for the asinine idea that air is fuel, again, you need some actual fire experience. You are exactly what is wrong with the fire service in 2015. To carry it further, you find a passage about thermal dynamics and then fail MISERABLY at paraphrasing the context. You literally have zero comprehension of the science behind a fire event, and the fact that no one has called you out yet absolutely astonishes me. Vertical ventilation does NOT intensify the fire conditions inside a building UNLESS, the tactical advantages gained are not capitalized upon in a timely fashion. I will say this, If your department can’t reliably get the line in place with the benefit of the vertical ventilation, then you owe it to your citizens to be honest with them about that. If that is your situation, you should absolutely hit it hard from the yard – every time, because you are a statistic waiting to happen. Just because you “work” at a rural outpost of civilization, your first due shows up with the only 2 people on duty that day, and you have no actual urban experience, does not mean that the past 150 years and 10 million plus fires have gone undocumented or the rest of us were too ignorant to get it. Showing up on a public forum and trash talking a department that was able to get to the roof and get a solid opening on that pitch shows you have zero knowledge about it. Maybe instead of taking on line classes and worrying about your paramedic certs you should either shut up or get some skills. You are an embarrassment to this profession.

  • Kevin Welch 1 year ago

    I have contacted Chicago Hook and Ladder 41 and spoke with several members and hope to speak with more of them so I can understand their job and training more. To all of those who have said negative comments about me you have only embarrassed yourself. I had the balls enough to call T-41 directly and clarify why I asked these questions and made these comments. Negativity only shows fear. Be safe out their and don’t be afraid to speak up! Brian Gary, your comments are only an embarrassment to yourself and shows a lack of education. Think outside the box and let the light in. Be safe out their Brian, I wish you the best and hope you are safe in whatever you do. May the road rise with you, may the sun always be at your back, may the rain lay soft upon your fields, and may whatever you believe in take you in the hollow of it’s hand.

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